I hope everyone has someone with whom they can share their passion for cannabis regularly – those conversations that our loved ones and normal people don’t understand when they see them happening. Let’s talk about Sour Dubb and Geisel and where the real Headband is, if it exists at all… for the next hour or so, you say? I’M ALL IN!!! 

One of those weirdos is my longtime friend Joe Zeller who also happens to be the co-director of cultivation along with Dante Maddaluno at Redbud Roots. Together, with the help of a dedicated team of 30 cannabis freaks, they manage 3 facilities with over 800 flowering lights.

My conversations with Joe over the years cover cannabis, cats, music and food, but 95% cannabis. Joe has been enjoying cannabis for a long time and gave up his caregiver rights to work full time at Redbud Roots, along with another friend of ours, Manager Rich Davis. They drive four hours a day, five days a week, to work at Redbud Roots.

Joe is a “umpteen time cannabis cups attendee” over the years in many states with me and brings a well-rounded view of the industry from his years as a caregiver and licensed grower, always continuing through the “snakes on planes” moments and never losing the love for the plant. I was fortunate to be able to meet the employees of Redbud in the facility and on their off time, and see firsthand that they loved their jobs and the plant, from the packaging department to the kitchen and of course, the growers.

From listening to Joe and Rich talk about Redbud, I realized that CEO Dave Murray was a special breed of human. They spoke of a man who was extremely intelligent and even more driven. Dave demands excellence but provides the freedom to achieve it. I have witnessed him mentor two of my dearest friends into the best versions of themselves, all the while examining every aspect of operating one of the top cannabis producers in the State of Michigan. I had met Dave previously and heard a lot about him, but I didn’t know his story, which explains the unique individual who runs Redbud Roots, and absolutely does not fuck around. I randomly reached out last week to see if he would chat with me briefly during his busy schedule, and he got right back to me, and it was on. His story is exactly why he is running a successful cannabis operation in extremely challenging times and growing. Check out our conversation below.

Give us a brief overview of your history before cannabis and why you chose it please.

Before I got involved in the cannabis industry, I was a commodities trader that specialized in agricultural futures. Essentially, I would predict the prices of corn and soybeans. I would buy and sell them in a strategy based on supply and demand. That turned into an algorithm I developed and traded off of.

I’ve always been passionate about cannabis, as I have been an avid user since high school. My older sister was a huge Deadhead and first introduced me to it. I studied Economics in college and my final paper was a study on how hemp legalization would reduce the world’s carbon footprint, increase jobs and economic growth and stability.

About 8 years ago, my oldest son started to develop some cognitive health issues that we were struggling to get diagnosed. We went through several doctors, psychologists and neuropsych evaluations with a different diagnosis every time. My friend (and later co-founder) sent me a Ted Talks with one of the Stanley Brothers from Colorado about how they were developing cannabis strains to help children with epileptic seizures and other ailments. As soon as I saw that, I knew I wanted to get involved in the space. 

So you like numbers? 

That’s a bit of an understatement. I’ve always been able to read numbers better than words. They just make sense to me. One of my co-founders always says “You can’t manage what you don’t measure.” I’ve always been a competitive person and keeping score is a bit of an obsession for me. I use data for everything. I use it to measure where we are improving and where we are falling short. It allows me to show optimistic growth, even if the road remains long and laborious.

What’s the number one pitfall you see most often as CEO of Redbud Roots in the Industry from your perspective that could be avoided? 

Don’t let your pride and ego get in the way. You will be wrong, and you will be wrong a lot. Have the courage to admit it and move on.

Can explain why you left the retail side in Michigan and sold your storefronts?

When we first started, we were following the same sheet of music as the big MSO’s that seem to have it all figured out: Grow -> Processing -> Retail. When we began to open our stores, we saw our biggest wholesale clients stop buying from us because we were deemed as competition now. We also saw the cities that we targeted continue to open up to additional licensing.  When we opened in Muskegon, we were the third store to open up.  I believe they are on track to have over 30 in that city alone.  Retail was simply not profitable for us and it was affecting our parts of the business that was profitable.

How did that work out? 

It was a very difficult decision to make because we had put a ton of time and energy into that part of our business. We also had to lay off several employees, which is never easy to do. That said, it was the best decision we could have made.  It has allowed us to grow the parts of our business that are working and focus our energy on things that we can do well and things that we enjoy doing.

I’ve noticed a certain energy inside Redbud Roots facilities and office that would be priceless in a bottle, how do you get to that point? 

I’ve always followed Richard Branson and how he ran companies and treated his employees. He was once quoted as saying “Train people well enough so they can leave you. Treat them well enough so they don’t want to.” I’ve always believed that leaders eat last and that the owners are there to work for the employees, not the other way around. We have tried to build this company with a family feel. The fact that you can feel that and see it is the greatest accomplishment we’ve had so far.

When I toured Redbud Roots last year and then visited again this year I continued to see a high quality of standards in the flower rooms and overall health of the rooms. How valuable is your grow team at Redbud Roots in your opinion?

It all starts at the grow. We pride ourselves on quality. We also realize that we won’t always be perfect. The grow team is invaluable to this organization. I do my best to allow them to make mistakes, learn, adapt and grow. I, personally, believe that no one really knows how to grow weed…. Yet. Sure – there are a lot of people with some really great knowledge and experience. But keep in mind, we thought the world was flat a few hundred years ago. The goal is to always be learning and growing – and that starts in the flower rooms. 

Redbud Roots on paper this year so far how are you feeling about the growth and overall climb in the Michigan Market?

We continue to grow and I am happy about that. More importantly, we are making shifts as the industry continues to unfold. No one has figured out the cannabis space yet. There are no benchmark players in the space yet. When I first got into the industry in 2017, MedMen were the kings of the industry. Now they are a penny stock. I think the name of the game right now is to survive and advance. If you are in this industry for the money, you are in the wrong industry. It feels like the players in this space are either Wall St. Suits that have endless amounts of money, but no real understanding to the industry. Or they are from the black market. Those individuals are extremely knowledgeable about everything cannabis, but struggle to understand 280-e tax liabilities, EBITDA, COGS, margins and other key performance indicators that help run a business. I think the ones that make it are going to be the scrappy operators that can pivot quickly and are a blend of the two.

Thank You for your time today Dave.

PLANTS ABOUT TO BE FLIPPED TO FLOWER AT REDBUD ROOTS